[dreamdeferred]

Originally Posted by dezhen

I can talk about basic things but use the standard Arabic mostly - although my wife and her family speak Lebanese which I can understand somewhat - just a different accent. The irony is that my wife's generation can't understand me much because they only know the Lebanese but the older generation can as they were brought up with both (although they reply in the dialect).

Most of my studies are more for reading and comprehending than speaking - plus writing of course - I am doing Arabic literature and Islamic Studies. This semester we have been writing 200-300 word summaries of news/media articles we have studied in class and so on, or making up our own in the same style. Outside I have also begun studying basic Arabic texts in Arabic on a variety of subjects.

Because we don't focus so much on actual speaking in class, it is actually my weakest area. My listening and reading are good but activating the Arabic vocabulary I know and understand to come from my mouth when it is needed is the hard part. :P

It is what I am trying to make up for now actually with Al-Kitaab and other works.
dawood

Good stuff,

Putting it all together to formulate coherent, fluid sentences is always the hardest part of learning any language. It sounds like you've come quite far already though.

This is making me reevaluate my approach somewhat as the main reason I'd like to learn Arabic is to make serious study of Islam and Pre-Islamic culture more accessible. It just made sense to me that if I learned to speak Arabic first while learning MSA grammar (and some Quranic Arabic) concurrently was a solid plan. Perhaps it makes more sense to start with the reading and writing.

*scratches chin*

[dezhen]

Well, there is a difference between how people speak and how things are written even to this day - the news (al-Jazeera etc.) for example speaks the standard/formal Arabic like is written so that Arabs from Morocco to Iraq and even East Africans can understand it - yet if you put an Iraqi, Moroccan and Lebanese person in a room their dialects would be confusing... They would speak the standard to each other anyway.

If you are wanting to move towards Islamic studies and also have conversational ability, then I recommend something like Al-Kitaab that I linked above or any other text which teaches the standard. The main grammar and morphology etc. is essentially the same and so are the meanings of vocabulary although many have modern meanings.

Eg. هاتف "hatif" - means telephone in Modern Standard Arabic, but means a disembodied voice - a voice you can hear but not see where from - in Classical Arabic. Which if you think about it, is what a telephone call actually is!

There are good texts like Haywood's well-known (but old) A New Arabic Grammar of the Written Language, which has a good sample of literature from classical to modern times. But to be frank, it is very tedious and boring stuff to go through - something with speaking, listening and so on is much more interesting and interactive.

As my teacher explained to me - don't put being able to converse etc. down - the dialects are still Arabic and many things are actually from solid classical/standard Arabic words just with an accent. Eg. you will find in Lebanese/Syrian (and elsewhere) people refer to work as شغل "shughl", whereas in the Standard we are taught عمل "`amal" so might wonder why. Yet as our exposure grows, we find `amal means to engage in something/perform an action, whereas shughl means to be kept busy with something or to be occupied with something. So both basically make perfect sense in that context, in the spoken one is just used more commonly then the other.

Being able to converse/think in Arabic will bring up your understanding of the things you read - whether Qur'an or Islamic texts in general, or the likes of the Mu`allaqat, Imru al-Qays and other pre-Islamic epics... it just takes time to develop. Obviously being able to read and comprehend is different from being able to speak but it depends on your own self - how much you want to develop each side of things. The main thing is to be able to "think" in Arabic without having to always translate each sentence or passage in to English in order to understand it - which takes time - I am pretty much at the line between the two now after three years study at University although nowhere near fluent yet.

For me, although my main interest is reading for research, texts which develop the four key areas: Reading, Writing, Listening and Speaking get the thumbs up from me because I also want to be able to speak as much as possible - Arabic is an oral language after all.

The main thing that I always keep in mind is that Arabic is one of the few living languages left - we can see pre-Islamic poetry today from before or just after the time of the Prophet (saw) and anyone who is well-educated in Arabic today can read them and understand them at various levels depending on their experience and knowledge of the language. It is an amazing thing when you think about it!

dawood

[dezhen]

By the way, one last thing regarding the whole oral aspect.

I have just been doing some reading/study regarding the history and development of the various qira'at (قراءات) of Qur'an we have today, as well as studying the basics of this with a shaykh here. Fascinating stuff - but one thing I wanted to say was that we see so many polemical articles arguing about the differences of some vowels or letters and so on in the various qira'at, implying they are different versions of the Qur'an. Yet if anyone had actually sat down and listened to someone reciting even two different qira'at (Hafs and Warsh, for example or Abu `Amr), they will see that it is just accent of how to pronounce certain letters which makes most of the difference, and how this is connected to the written form; that the integrity of the text is the same.

But if one does not have that oral aspect, then it is easy to get caught up in grammatical/orthographic and other differences and so on - forgetting that Arabic is an oral language and the Qur'an is oral by nature - it's name implying that it is to be recited.

I know for my own self that when I sit with my teacher, I memorize by repeating after him, using the written word as only an aide. Many times what is written has looked complex and confusing for me to pronounce, yet when I listen and follow, it is much simpler than I thought from looking at the text!

dawood

[sally]

sooooooooo ive been trying to learn to speak arabic for like YEARS. however, every attempt got to be shortlived because i couldnt continue taking the classes for longer than 4- 6 months (only enough time for basics) and so id stop. then when id go back id start all over again to refresh and the cycle kept on repeating itself.

most of my instruction was in fus'ha. ive learned enough to get a vague idea of whats being talked about in a quraan verse or dua, etc. but i think most people know that much.

so finally, im starting arabic at school this semester inshaAllah and hopefully ill be able to take and complete all four arabic classes offered at my university (that's like two years of arabic). this is going to be mostly conversational though but im figuring it will hopefully give me a better and more solid ground for furthering my learning if im ever able to make it past two years of instruction (like if i find more classes or teachers, etc)

i'm really excited though cuz ive been waiting forever to take it in school but stuff kept coming up. im gonna fly through the first semester though...it's all gonna be a repeat of what i already know.. but im still looking forward to it

any others currently taking arabic or who have successfully mastered arabic speaking skillz through courses, etc?

let's use this thread to help each other out (with homework...or not!)

[sally]

so i still remember my 'gardaans' and some of ilm-us-sarf and ilm-un-nahw

anyone familiar with that stuff?

lets see if this is right..the various tenses and forms of the word TO DO, fa'al

fa'ala
fa'alaa
fa'aloo
fa'alat
fa'alataa
fa'alta
fa'altu
fa'altunna
fa'alnu
fa'alnaa

i think im missing one

[wheelworks]

The mistake most teachers make when teaching Arabic, is that they expect you to expect to memorize the Arabic words for Verb, Noun, Pronouns etc...

That's when the majority of the students get lost

I'm currently taking Arabic with Sh. Jamaal Zarabozo and I think this the first time ever I'm managing to understand the intricacies of Arabic Grammar

Alhamdulillah donchaknow

[wheelworks]

Originally Posted by sally

so i still remember my 'gardaans' and some of ilm-us-sarf and ilm-un-nahw

anyone familiar with that stuff?

lets see if this is right..the various tenses and forms of the word TO DO, fa'al

fa'ala
fa'alaa
fa'aloo
fa'alat
fa'alataa
fa'alta
fa'altu
fa'altunna
fa'alnu
fa'alnaa

i think im missing one

It should be:

fa'ala
fa'alaa
fa'aluu
fa'alat
fa'alataa
fa'alna
fa'alta
fa'alti
fa'altumaa
fa'altunna
fa'altu
fa'alnaa



edit: It's Fa'altumaa not Fa'alumaa

[Ayooshi]

Asalamu Alaikum,

took arabic for 2 years. Still working on Sarf and Nahw, since my course neglected that greatly. My Reading and Listening comprehension is very very good. Everything else is a work in progress.

Fi AmanAllah

[sally]

Originally Posted by wheelworks

fa'ala
fa'alaa
fa'aluu
fa'alat
fa'alataa
fa'alna
fa'alta
fa'alti
fa'alumaa
fa'altunna
fa'altu
fa'alnaa

dear GOD, i've gotten rusty

[ShakirSahab]

Originally Posted by wheelworks

It should be:

fa'ala
fa'alaa
fa'aluu
fa'alat
fa'alataa
fa'alna
fa'alta
fa'alti
fa'altumaa
fa'altunna
fa'altu
fa'alnaa



edit: It's Fa'altumaa not Fa'alumaa

+ fa'altum.

[Wolfn]

I don't know how to read Arabic!


Also, I have a speech impediment. My top jaw is 1/4'' forward than my lower jaw and I have a lazy tongue. Therefore, I'm unable to pronounce certain words, especially in Arabic.

[Spice]

Originally Posted by Wolfn

I don't know how to read Arabic!


Also, I have a speech impediment. My top jaw is 1/4'' forward than my lower jaw and I have a lazy tongue. Therefore, I'm unable to pronounce certain words, especially in Arabic.

Do you have a teacher?

[caffienetime]

i took about five years of arabic. all i know is:

na'am
la
la ma' arif
sho ismi?
ismi caffientime
al
haza
anta himaar i learned that in dubai
kulb
qulb
anna

and a few more fragments.

[MuslimZ]

spending this coming semester in egypt, iA

[ShakirSahab]