for all you flag waving desis

[iTz_NoT_Me_iTzZu]

Originally Posted by ShahRukh

But still...you know the rule that you're not supposed to talk about sins of others ..openly?

well he is a public figure, and it's not like all of that isn't widely known

[IbnMardhiyah]

Originally Posted by ShahRukh

But still...you know the rule that you're not supposed to talk about sins of others ..openly?

That rule applies to the private sins you may know about one specific person.

But if a person who is a public figure, or a leader - i.e. someone who's life is always under the microscope, and he sins in public, then there's no fault on you for bringing that point up if others do not know, particularly because its a leader or potential leader that is being discussed. In such a discussion, it is imperative that people know what kind, what quality of a person he is so that they can make an educated choice on whether he should be chosen as their leader or not.

Its another thing altogether to bring up the sins of the dead for no reason, because you might fall into the area of insulting that person, and of course, insulting the dead [Muslim or not] is forbidden.

Although I don't think that's what Bruinrab was doing.

[Bruinrab]

Originally Posted by IbnMardhiyah

Its another thing altogether to bring up the sins of the dead for no reason, because you might fall into the area of insulting that person, and of course, insulting the dead [Muslim or not] is forbidden.

Although I don't think that's what Bruinrab was doing.

Thanks IbnM, I think you understood what I was trying to do. I was just pointing out that holding Jinnah up as an example of a good Muslim makes for a flawed argument. It has nothing to do with my own opinion of him as a person or as a leader.

[Jamroll]

Originally Posted by Bruinrab

Considering that Jinnah was a secularist who drank, ate pork, and married a Parsi himself (all quite openly), I would hardly hold him up as an example of a great Muslim leader.

Great leader of India's Muslims, yes, but not a great Muslim himself.

Well, you can argue that he wasn't a great Muslim leader, but it depends on what word in that phrase you put emphasis on. He may or may not have been the best Muslim, but he was a great leader of the Muslims.

What Allama Iqbal dreamt in theory, he made happen in practice. He was instrumental in creating a homeland for the Muslims of the subcontinent. That makes him a great leader of Muslims.

[Bruinrab]

Originally Posted by Jamroll

Well, you can argue that he wasn't a great Muslim leader, but it depends on what word in that phrase you put emphasis on. He may or may not have been the best Muslim, but he was a great leader of the Muslims.

What Allama Iqbal dreamt in theory, he made happen in practice. He was instrumental in creating a homeland for the Muslims of the subcontinent. That makes him a great leader of Muslims.

Isn't that what I said?

Originally Posted by Bruinrab

Considering that Jinnah was a secularist who drank, ate pork, and married a Parsi himself (all quite openly), I would hardly hold him up as an example of a great Muslim leader.

Great leader of India's Muslims, yes, but not a great Muslim himself.

[Jamroll]

Originally Posted by Bruinrab

Isn't that what I said?

Ah, the old "Isn't that what I said" line, eh? Well yes, you may have said it in the second paragraph, but I'm hardly going to admit in public that I missed that line and therefore based my whole post on a false premise, am I? Therefore, I put it to you, that I am right and you are wrong.

Now please, don't continue this futile attempt at trying to prove me wrong, because it is futile and did I mention that I am right and you are wrong. Anyway, you are the weakest link, goodbye.

[Bruinrab]

Originally Posted by Jamroll

Ah, the old "Isn't that what I said" line, eh? Well yes, you may have said it in the second paragraph, but I'm hardly going to admit in public that I missed that line and therefore based my whole post on a false premise, am I? Therefore, I put it to you, that I am right and you are wrong.

Now please, don't continue this futile attempt at trying to prove me wrong, because it is futile and did I mention that I am right and you are wrong. Anyway, you are the weakest link, goodbye.

OK, I give up, Jammy's right folks.