Makka, luxury hotel, luxury mall.

[MossadConspiracy]

they dont go after money they dig in the ground and billions of dollars comes out

[Dubai3000]

^^^ yes that too, but look how poorly that money is managed. Much of it is taken by the royal family.

[Revert]

Originally Posted by SaidAbdullahofDarfur

Whats wrong with capitalism?
You gotta be kidding me....

The entire system of making a buck for screwing someone over is fine in your eyes?

Okay, try telling me how building a luxry mall/hotel in Makkah is going to help anyone except The Rich?

Thats not true capitalism and you know it. Capitalism is based on profit, but not greed. The antient world ran in a crude capitalistic manner even 6th century Arabia, even though it wasn't named as such, if you look at the history you can see what it was.

Originally Posted by Dubai3000

Yeah these people are blind and would never understand that. They think that greedy capitalism is part of islam. Thats why you see saudis going after money like dogs. They dont care a bit about islam and about the muslims around the world.

So nobody made a profit before the advent of the Modern World? Islam offers us ways to go about our business in Halal methods, Capitalism can be done in a Halal manner so please save your propaganda for the next Student Union meeting.

Originally Posted by Aryan_

Haint got anything to do with capitalism. Most European cities have laws preventing large buildings around historical landmarks and so they aren't obscured and the feel of the city isn't altered. That is exactly what this monstrosity does.

It is a tacky soulless building that looks like any one of the crappy development projects springing up in Gulf countries. The Arab rulers and brown sugar are impressed with anything shiny, to them it's probably "being modern". Why not just turn the Baitullah into a starbucks?

Thee Masjid Al Haram is not a historical building, its been demolished over and over since it was first constructed. However Allah will protect the Kabba as has been done since the advent of Islam.

Yeah it might be an eyesore, it might be a decadent waste of time but if we focus on this instead of the real issues then we won't move on as an Ummah..will we?

[Dubai3000]

Originally Posted by Revert

Thats not true capitalism and you know it. Capitalism is based on profit, but not greed. The antient world ran in a crude capitalistic manner even 6th century Arabia, even though it wasn't named as such, if you look at the history you can see what it was.



So nobody made a profit before the advent of the Modern World? Islam offers us ways to go about our business in Halal methods, Capitalism can be done in a Halal manner so please save your propaganda for the next Student Union meeting.



Thee Masjid Al Haram is not a historical building, its been demolished over and over since it was first constructed. However Allah will protect the Kabba as has been done since the advent of Islam.

Yeah it might be an eyesore, it might be a decadent waste of time but if we focus on this instead of the real issues then we won't move on as an Ummah..will we?

Read this:
Capitalism is also based on the theory of relative scarcity. This means that there always has to be a real or as in the majority of cases, a forces insufficiency of commodities to meet the needs of the people. This is not in keeping with the reality life. Today, there are more than enough goods and commodities to satisfy the needs of everyone, but because this in fact, contradicts the principle of relative scarcity, some people are left without the fulfilment of their basic needs of food, shelter, and clothing while others seem to have too much of one or more.


Islam does not share this idea of relative scarcity. This theory divides the society such that a small percentage of people hoard almost all the wealth while the rest of society struggles to have a home and food. Islam does not allow this to happen. The basic needs are guaranteed to every Muslim and non-Muslim living under the rule of Islam. These needs include the tangible, such as adequate food, clothing, and shelter, as well as the intangible, such as medicine, education and security. The primary goal is to have everyone producing and everyone consuming.


The Islamic economic system is not based on price as the method of distribution of goods, but rather, how to distribute funds and benefits to all citizens. With the basic needs satisfied, everyone can live a happier life because people are allowed to search for the livelihood that suits them best and makes them the happiest. The whole society prospers from this system because when people are doing what makes them happy instead of only what makes them money, they are more successful and productive. There may be great economic differences among the people and the means to have the basics for life will be provided for all. This takes into account the fact that people have different skills, motivational levels and entrepreneur desires and there is no sin in high earnings.


Islamic Invitation Centre - Islam and Capitalism

[Dubai3000]

so how are the saudis or for that matter majority of muslims follwing the islamic economic system????? i think you guys really need to go the text books and study islam further.

[Revert]

Originally Posted by Dubai3000

so how are the saudis or for that matter majority of muslims follwing the islamic economic system????? i think you guys really need to go the text books and study islam further.

No one is claimng that the Islamic system is in place. However contray to your source I feel that Capalitistic notions can be reconciled with Islamic principles, especially in todays climatic society.

Contrary to your thought pattern Capitalism in one form or another has been in place in Islamic societies. Research Merchant Capitalism and see its parallels to 6th century Arabia.

I agree that Modern Capitalism is a corrupt system but I won't disregard a whole system based on a few idiots making a bad name for it. If that were the case I wouldn't be a Muslim.

[Dubai3000]

^ well i think no one is suggesting that capitalism itself is wrong. But it has to be conducted in a proper way. I think the islamic system is the best way because it is based on fairness. But unfortunatly our countries probably practice it in the worst way.

[Revert]

Originally Posted by Dubai3000

^ well i think no one is suggesting that capitalism itself is wrong. But it has to be conducted in a proper way. I think the islamic system is the best way because it is based on fairness. But unfortunatly our countries probably practice it in the worst way.

Actually Saidof darfur was saying it was wrong so I felt the need to show him its not all bad. The ISlamic system and Capitalism are not mutually exlusive if done in the correct way. This is the point I am trying to make.

[IbnMardhiyah]

1) Everyone here who's blaming the Saudi government for every crime under the sun - please grow up. If you can't bring any evidence for your claims, then you've exposed the intellectual weakness of your argument. Yeah its real easy to sit back and blame the established authority, but it doesn't get your point across and only tells me that you're standing on real thin ice.

So either bring it or zip it.

Originally Posted by Dubai3000

Read this:
Capitalism is also based on the theory of relative scarcity.

2) That assertion of capitalism is totally distorted, simply because people who don't know better like to blame capitalism as that big, bad, over-arching evil trait of the West, when in fact - its just business as usual.

So that we don't have any disputes over what the definition of capitalism really is, I'll use established authorities available here, in which its clearly defined that capitalism is:

"...an economic system in which investment in and
ownership of the means of production, distribution,
and exchange of wealth is made and maintained
chiefly by private individuals or corporations, esp.
as contrasted to cooperatively or state-owned
means of wealth."

In plain and simple terms, capitalism is the opposite of socialism. I think everyone can see that socialism just doesn't work. Its a failure. Capitalism on the other hand is the essence of business - an individual or a company produces goods or services to meet a demand and they profit from it.

All the Sahabaa were capitalists. They ran their own business using their own money, they built their supply and logistical lines, distribution networks, marketing, and so on. They all looked for ways to reduce their production costs and increase profit. That's the same thing that happens in capitalism and trade. Islam itself encourages free trade and has nothing against capitalism.

The Islamic government itself is the one responsible for distributing services and wealth to the poor and needy, and the poor and needy exists in every society. They are not a byproduct of capitalism.

IN the modern world, yes you have many individuals or corporations who have what appear to be obscene amounts of wealth because they're successful at what they do. All businesses seek to lower their costs. Big deal.

Any societal illnesses that exists today, and the increasing gap between the rich and poor, are not a result of capitalism.

[Dubai3000]

^ you seriously are talking BS and now i for sure know that you are some greedy minded person yourself.The sahabas were business men yes, but they also contributed thier wealth towards the society and towards islam, not like your kind who are the most greedy men in the world.

The main point is the system you are practicing is not the same system which islam has dictated. End of story.

[IbnMardhiyah]

Originally Posted by Dubai3000

^ you seriously are talking BS and now i for sure know that you are some greedy minded person yourself.The sahabas were business men yes, but they also contributed thier wealth towards the society and towards islam, not like your kind who are the most greedy men in the world.

The main point is the system you are practicing is not the same system which islam has dictated. End of story.

Bring forth your proof that I am a greedy person and that I don't contribute my time and wealth towards the betterment of society - Muslims and non-Muslim. Bring for your proof that the system I practice is not the same that Islam advocates.

And if you cannot, and you are wrong, then may Allaah forgive you.
And if you do bring forth such proof and you are right, then may Allaah forgive me.

[Dubai3000]

i dont even know you, and i am not saying you as person per say but i am talking about the people you support.

[Timbit]

Why do you put two As in the middle of Allah?

[SaidAbdullahofDarfur]

Originally Posted by Dubai3000

^ well i think no one is suggesting that capitalism itself is wrong.

Oh, then you really don't know me...

Capitalism is indeed the fruit of shaytan, Most of the worlds conflicts, including this one, Would be avoided If this system was abolished.

This is being made for a profit.
No other gain will be made.

Its a slap in the face to Masjid Al Haram, The People of Makkah, and the General Muslim population.

This along with the 'War on Terror' are the fruits of This Evil System.

[Variable]

Originally Posted by SaidAbdullahofDarfur

Oh, then you really don't know me...

Capitalism is indeed the fruit of shaytan, Most of the worlds conflicts, including this one, Would be avoided If this system was abolished.

This is being made for a profit.
No other gain will be made.

Its a slap in the face to Masjid Al Haram, The People of Makkah, and the General Muslim population.

This along with the 'War on Terror' are the fruits of This Evil System.

Capitalism is a pretty broad term to label as evil... there are so many different degrees of it.


Anyway, another point to this eye-sore hotel... it's going to make some pretty terrible dawah. I can see right now that the tackiness this thing imposes on the holy site is going to make prospective Muslims wonder were current Muslims' priorities lay.