[Haramoobobi]

"A life of ease is a difficult pursuit."

-William Cowper

[IbnMardhiyah]

Originally Posted by SaidAbdullahofDarfur

When fathers die trying to get .50 cent more to feed their families. When children are forced to work on the assembly line.

Is someone holding a gun to his head and forcing him to die over half a dollar more worth of wages? He has a brain, the same brain that God gave to those poor people that went into business and made it big. So if he's going to be stupid, and make mistakes, that is his fault, and not the fault of rich business people.

Where in Islam, does it say that the rich people have fiduciary responsibility for correcting the stupid mistakes of the poor?

If I run a business, and I need to drive down the cost of goods, and I move my manufacturing operations to some country which has a lower cost of living, and I can hire 1000 workers being paid at the going rate in that country - lets say its $2.50 an hour - what? you're blaming me for running an efficient business?

Islam told me to spend my money wisely and not waste it.

OH WOW WHAT A CRIME.

Are you okay with this?

Yes I am. For the billionth time, yes for the love of God, I'm perfectly okay with it. I do not lose any sleep over it. Not one wink.

Anyways, you have a major problem. And I'll tell you what it is.

Your problem is not that you have such shallow and naive ideals, that are incompatible with Islam. Your problem is that you have no presentation skills. You don't know how to pitch your ideas, your selling skills are woefully inadequate for the task you're trying to accomplish - the task of convincing me of your ideas or whatever the heck it is you're trying to get across.

So, go back to the drawing board, get some skills, and come back and try again. I'm sure this is not the last time we'll be having this discussion.

Bye.

[TrentReznor858]

Originally Posted by IbnMardhiyah

I've said this a billion times, and I will say it again a billion times more.
I do not see any problem whatsoever[b] with a minority of people being wealthy and many people being poor.
.

[SaidAbdullahofDarfur]

Originally Posted by Haramoobobi

"A life of ease is a difficult pursuit."

-William Cowper

Unnecessary Fitna doesn't equal Jihad.

Originally Posted by IbnMardhiyah

Is someone holding a gun to his head and forcing him to die over half a dollar more worth of wages? He has a brain, the same brain that God gave to those poor people that went into business and made it big. So if he's going to be stupid, and make mistakes, that is his fault, and not the fault of rich business people.

You're completely missing the point, these people are out of options, the imperialist corporations have taken away the need for small farms or home made goods.
In a way it is holding a gun to his head, when you strip a man of every single option with the exception of becoming what he hates, the oppressor.

The only difference is that in imperial industrial capitalism, the gun is a metaphor for the power of the corporation.

Where in Islam, does it say that the rich people are responsible for correcting the stupid mistakes of the poor?

If I run a business, and I need to drive down the cost of goods, and I move my manufacturing operations to some country which has a lower cost of living, and I can hire 1000 workers being paid at the going rate in that country - lets say its $2.50 an hour - what? you're blaming me for running an efficient business?

Islam told me to spend my money wisely and not waste it.

OH WOW WHAT A CRIME.

In Islam no ONE man Can be that rich.
If he treats people as HUMAN BEINGS and pays his zakat annually, theres just no way a man can be 50+ billion.

These people are responsible because they forced them into this situation. The Rich who run the corporations that buy out 'local business'(for lack of a better term), The rich who run the educational systems, turning kids into zombie factory workers, The Media propaganda of woking for corporations, the Corporate Ideal of success, etc. these things did not just happen, they were put into play so that Elitist class can stay elite. Keep the workers divided, keep the kids stupid, and you keep the poor, poor.

You sir are not running an efficient business, you are running a 21st century plantation.
Your Ideals of saving money at the cost of human liberty is the same ideology the led to the horrors of the middle passage.

Yes I am. For the billionth time, yes for the love of God, I'm perfectly okay with it. I do not lose any sleep over it. Not one wink.

Anyways, you have a major problem. And I'll tell you what it is.

Your problem is not that you have such shallow and naive ideals, that are incompatible with Islam. Your problem is that you have no presentation skills. You don't know how to pitch your ideas, your selling skills are woefully inadequate for the task you're trying to accomplish - the task of convincing me of your ideas or whatever the heck it is you're trying to get across.

So, go back to the drawing board, get some skills, and come back and try again. I'm sure this is not the last time we'll be having this discussion.

Bye.

Presentation skills? Shallow? This coming from you?
I think the problem lies within the media brainwashing of youth.
The ambitions of adults, and the desires of the young.

When people only care about themselves, crap like this happens.
When we becomes selfless, like Islam teaches, we can let go of these selfish ideologies.

[Haramoobobi]

Originally Posted by SaidAbdullahofDarfur

Unnecessary Fitna doesn't equal Jihad.

Eh? hahhaaha-yo I just shared the quote--don't put words in my mouth.

[SaidAbdullahofDarfur]

Originally Posted by Haramoobobi

Eh? hahhaaha-yo I just shared the quote--don't put words in my mouth.

s'ight just thought you were referring to the struggles of the impoverished brought about by imperialist thugs.

[IbnMardhiyah]

Originally Posted by SaidAbdullahofDarfur

You're completely missing the point, these people are out of options, the imperialist corporations have taken away the need for small farms or home made goods.
In a way it is holding a gun to his head, when you strip a man of every single option with the exception of becoming what he hates, the oppressor.

No, you're just deluded.

There are always options. Always. Suggesting ideas like running a farm or producing small goods shows how small and incompetent your thinking is, and the fact that you're really not even qualified or experienced enough to be discussing this matter - if you want to be taken seriously.

It would be suicide, or at least a really stupid business idea for most poor people in the world today to run a farm because there are much larger farms out there that have greater market share and bigger and faster logistics and distribution channels. The poor man starting up a farm would either be wasting any money he has already, or be placing himself in potentially irreversible and accumulative debt if he's borrowing any money to start one up.

In Islam no ONE man Can be that rich.
If he treats people as HUMAN BEINGS and pays his zakat annually, theres just no way a man can be 50+ billion.

???

Can you please provide any textual evidence for these ABSURD and RIDICULOUS statements of yours?

If I have $50 billion personal net worth, money made from legitimate business activities, and I pay my annual zakaat - lets say 2.5% for argument's sake - and I have $25 billion of my assets invested in financial vehicles giving me a 35% annualized ROI, then I'm growing my money and paying zakaat on top of the capital gains as well - in addition to my pre-existing assets, and presuming I'm also using my money to support schools and masaajid and communities, etc etc ... how could I not have that kind of money, Islamically? even practically? Is there some barrier? is it makrouh or haraam?

Do you have any idea how rich some of the Sahabaa used to be? During the time of the Khulafaa ar-Rashidoon, one of the Sahabaa came in on his own business caravan with like a thousand camels. The guy was very wealthy, his business was prospering, he was freaking LOADED. He had the opportunity to sell all his foodstuffs for five times the normal price due to market conditions in Madinah at that time. And he could have legitimately, Islamically, sold the goods at higher than their regular price because the merchants were willing to pay that much, of their own volition. And of course I'm sure you know the rest of the story.

You sir are not running an efficient business, you are running a 21st century plantation.
Your Ideals of saving money at the cost of human liberty is the same ideology the led to the horrors of the middle passage.

You really. have. no. clue.

Presentation skills? Shallow? This coming from you?
I think the problem lies within the media brainwashing of youth.
The ambitions of adults, and the desires of the young.

Yes. This coming from me. Someone who's way older than you and is in professional sales and presentation, and runs his own business as well.

Open your mind and realize I'm trying to teach you something. You really DO NOT have any worthwhile presentation skills. You need these skills if you want to make coherent, effective, and convincing presentations to others around you - be it for commercial or non-commercial reasons. Learn how to do an elevator pitch. It'll help you in nearly every aspect of your life.

You're trying to present a certain idea but you're failing at it, failing miserably. I'm not insulting you, I just don't have a habit of sugar-coating things and handling people with kiddie gloves and making them believe something that isn't true.

So like I said, go back and learn how to sell. And then come back, and try again.

And I absolutely demand that you give me Islamic textual evidence for the claims you made above about Islam.

[sally]

umm, all this money talk is making me sick.

i was thinking j. k rowling and the royal family would be on the list. shows how little i know.

and booohooo bill gates. poor man can only afford 3494239034293249340943243 ferraris now as opposed to 349340343094339. MAKE IT NATIONAL NEWS!

and PS what about people who are millionaires in their hearts? they should be on the list. k thanx.

[wheelworks]

Originally Posted by sally

and PS what about people who are millionaires in their hearts? they should be on the list. k thanx.

The majority who made the list were billionaires not Millionaires donchaknow

[Salika]

I agree with Sally, hahha...

I spent $100 last week, make it national news!

I agree with ibn except I don't think it's fair to call poor people "dumb." Some people are just trying to make it, many have health problems (often as a result of their jobs), some have tried and failed (and if the market ultimately decides who is rich, then being smart and dumb is not the only factor).

[Jamroll]

Yeah, I don't agree with calling poor people dumb either. Everyone has different skills and abilities, and the world recognises different skills as being more valuable than others, and this scale of what's-more-or-less-valuable is continually changing throughout the times.

Also, Islam and Capitalism might seem similar on certain things on the surface, but these similarities are largely irrelevant because of the basic assumptions that underpin the two systems are so very different.

[sally]

Originally Posted by wheelworks

The majority who made the list were billionaires not Millionaires donchaknow

no. stop stalking all my posts. thanks.

[wheelworks]

Originally Posted by sally

no. stop stalking all my posts. thanks.

I'm not :stalker: I only Stalk Chotoos' posts donchaknow