[Kaminyu]

Originally Posted by ShotgunMessiah

It might get better, since the US is looking for alternative fuels. We're working on hydrogen and ethanol, so who knows. After gasoline is no longer the ideal fuel for distance vs. price, the cost will plummet. Especially after hydrogen becomes viable; gas will be the price it was in the 80s.

Hydrogen and ethanol have their drawbacks as well. Ethanol requires more fuel to be created, than it actually creates. Plus, the arable land that is required to grow the stuff, is needed for food production. The food crisis today is a direct result of this. Hydrogen has the same problem, that it requires more energy than it actually produces. On top of that, it is insanely expensive in production and in purchasing. Plus, it's still in the experimental stages and decades (at the earliest) from being ready to scale on an industrial level.

[bravotwozero]

Originally Posted by Kaminyu

Hydrogen and ethanol have their drawbacks as well. Ethanol requires more fuel to be created, than it actually creates. Plus, the arable land that is required to grow the stuff, is needed for food production. The food crisis today is a direct result of this. Hydrogen has the same problem, that it requires more energy than it actually produces. On top of that, it is insanely expensive in production and in purchasing. Plus, it's still in the experimental stages and decades (at the earliest) from being ready to scale on an industrial level.

Of course, we can never do things like invest in public transportation infrastructure, design communities around it, or limit suburban sprawl. That would just make too much sense.

[Kaminyu]

Originally Posted by bravotwozero

Of course, we can never do things like invest in public transportation infrastructure, design communities around it, or limit suburban sprawl. That would just make too much sense.

Well, obviously. However, that requires a change in our current standard of living, which is inevitable anyway. However, maintaining our current standard of living with alternative fuels is impossible.

[ShotgunMessiah]

Originally Posted by Kaminyu

Hydrogen and ethanol have their drawbacks as well. Ethanol requires more fuel to be created, than it actually creates. Plus, the arable land that is required to grow the stuff, is needed for food production. The food crisis today is a direct result of this. Hydrogen has the same problem, that it requires more energy than it actually produces. On top of that, it is insanely expensive in production and in purchasing. Plus, it's still in the experimental stages and decades (at the earliest) from being ready to scale on an industrial level.

Be that as it may, other options that could be pursued simply are not, because the government makes too much money off the gasoline tax to worry about the environment.

It's the same kind of thing as what's going on out in California and (soon) New York. They ban cigarettes and jack up the taxes to insane amounts until people don't want to buy the cigarettes anymore, then the government starts losing money on the tobacco tax. What does the government do then? Hike up the alcohol tax to make up for it.

The difference is, it's preventative in this case. Rather than worry about alternative fuels (like the automobile engine that could run on recycled water that was developed in the 70s) they simply force the people to use gasoline as long as they possibly can to keep the money rolling in. How many of us would buy gasoline when we can fill up a few gallon jugs of water and have enough power to drive cross-country? And how many of us would pay for water when it literally falls from the sky?

[Kaminyu]

Originally Posted by ShotgunMessiah

Be that as it may, other options that could be pursued simply are not, because the government makes too much money off the gasoline tax to worry about the environment.

It's the same kind of thing as what's going on out in California and (soon) New York. They ban cigarettes and jack up the taxes to insane amounts until people don't want to buy the cigarettes anymore, then the government starts losing money on the tobacco tax. What does the government do then? Hike up the alcohol tax to make up for it.

The difference is, it's preventative in this case. Rather than worry about alternative fuels (like the automobile engine that could run on recycled water that was developed in the 70s) they simply force the people to use gasoline as long as they possibly can to keep the money rolling in. How many of us would buy gasoline when we can fill up a few gallon jugs of water and have enough power to drive cross-country? And how many of us would pay for water when it literally falls from the sky?

True. Let's also not forget Tesla's fuelless generator, which could, in theory, provide unlimited amounts of free energy.

[antisalafi]

Still pay less than the rest of world.

Meaning: stop your *****ing.

[Kaminyu]

Originally Posted by antisalafi

Still pay less than the rest of world.

Meaning: stop your *****ing.

Who cares if it's less than the rest of the world? It's still costing a fortune, and is significantly more than it was a year ago.

[antisalafi]

Originally Posted by Kaminyu

Who cares if it's less than the rest of the world? It's still costing a fortune, and is significantly more than it was a year ago.

Instead of crying, start shifting habits.

Whining like a little girl isn't going to bring costs down.

[sumiyia]

Originally Posted by antisalafi

blah blah blah give me attention blah blah

[Kaminyu]

Originally Posted by antisalafi

Instead of crying, start shifting habits.

Whining like a little girl isn't going to bring costs down.

I'm not crying. I don't really care, since I'm not paying for it ... yet.

However, other people care, as they do pay for it. Shifting habits sounds nice, and a lot of people have already started to do just that, but they're still going to complain about the gas prices regardless. It's still a lot.

[Variable]

Originally Posted by Kaminyu

Hydrogen and ethanol have their drawbacks as well. Ethanol requires more fuel to be created, than it actually creates. Plus, the arable land that is required to grow the stuff, is needed for food production. The food crisis today is a direct result of this. Hydrogen has the same problem, that it requires more energy than it actually produces. On top of that, it is insanely expensive in production and in purchasing. Plus, it's still in the experimental stages and decades (at the earliest) from being ready to scale on an industrial level.

Any production of energy requires more input than there is output...there's always loss and waste. It's just transforming the one kind of energy into a useful form.

[Asvi]

Originally Posted by jaani

Can someone please explain what the difference is between oil at different gas stations?

How is one good and other bad? I'm still clueless

~j

Some gas stations have ethanol mixed within their gas, which is bad for some cars. But i dont know if that makes a difference is prices.

[Kaminyu]

Originally Posted by Variable

Any production of energy requires more input than there is output...there's always loss and waste. It's just transforming the one kind of energy into a useful form.

Not necessarily. With oil, more energy is generated than is put into its production. This is known as EROEI (Energy Returned On Energy Invested), which is how many units of energy are produced, for every 1 unit of energy put into its production. Oil is used to produce oil, and in the beginning oil had an EROEI of 100:1, meaning it took 1 unit of energy to produce 100 more. Today, its now like 30:1. If it ever reaches 1:1, it's no longer a resource.

[Variable]

Originally Posted by Kaminyu

Not necessarily. With oil, more energy is generated than is put into its production. This is known as EROEI (Energy Returned On Energy Invested), which is how many units of energy are produced, for every 1 unit of energy put into its production. Oil is used to produce oil, and in the beginning oil had an EROEI of 100:1, meaning it took 1 unit of energy to produce 100 more. Today, its now like 30:1. If it ever reaches 1:1, it's no longer a resource.

Sorry, I thought we were talking more fundamentally...