Praising Ali (RA) in Sufi Music

[Timbit]

Why?

Not that there's anything wrong with praising Ali RA, but as far as I know, these qawwals (or the other artists who sing Sufi kalam) aren't Shia, so what's the need to sing "Ali da pehla number"?

The only explanation I can think of is that Qalandar himself must've been Shia?

[NeoMuslim]

I dont know about that specific song,
but the station of Ali is quite high in sunni islam

Im not big on ahadith, but:

"I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate"

etc

[Timbit]

Of course it is (and that's why I said there's nothing with praising him) but is his station above and beyond the station of the other Companions?

I don't want to turn this into a sectarian flaming thread (I posted this in this subforum because I'm really just curious as to why these lyrics are in Sufi devotional music), but saying that his was the first number (that's what the Punjabi part meant) obviously means he was supposed to be the first Caliph. And that's a distinctly Shia belief.

[Rida]

He must have meant the first in the chain of a certain Sufi tariqa.
Many tariqa chains lead back to sayyidna ali (ra) except for the naqshbandi tariqa which goes back to sayyidna abu bakr as siddiq (ra).

Wassalaam

[NeoMuslim]

Timbit said

Of course it is (and that's why I said there's nothing with praising him) but is his station above and beyond the station of the other Companions?

I don't want to turn this into a sectarian flaming thread (I posted this in this subforum because I'm really just curious as to why these lyrics are in Sufi devotional music), but saying that his was the first number (that's what the Punjabi part meant) obviously means he was supposed to be the first Caliph. And that's a distinctly Shia belief.

I don't know what the "official" Sunni view is, but I personally do think that Ali is more special than the other companions. Think about it, the Prophet saws was raised by Abu Talib who was Ali's dad. Now, I dont know all the history, but unless there is some fact that precludes the possibility, then Ali grew up in the same house as the Prophet. And that makes him more special than anyone else IMHO. BTW how old was Ali when the Prophet recieved the first revelation?

[Rida]

Our Master 'ali (ra): "I will lash anyone who prefers me over Abu Bakr and `Umar, the lashing of a slanderer." (Lisan al-Mizan)

[sixpakistan]

Rida said

He must have meant the first in the chain of a certain Sufi tariqa.
Many tariqa chains lead back to sayyidna ali (ra) except for the naqshbandi tariqa which goes back to sayyidna abu bakr as siddiq (ra).

Wassalaam

Yup

Ten chars

[Timbit]

Rida said

He must have meant the first in the chain of a certain Sufi tariqa.
Many tariqa chains lead back to sayyidna ali (ra) except for the naqshbandi tariqa which goes back to sayyidna abu bakr as siddiq (ra).

Wassalaam

sixpakistan said

Yup

Ten chars

Really? That's what it means?


NeoMuslim: Yeah, well... you also don't know if you're Sunni or Shia.

[Summers]

Question was answered, now lets explore other tangents.

The art originated from Sufi shrines in Persia, for the purpose of getting in touch with one's spiritual self. There's an interesting concept of how a qawwaal when doing qawwaali is nearer to God, and 'with Him'. It then evolved and spread throughout the subcontinent over a period of 6-700 years. It evolved considerably, and was nothing what we know it as now. I'd think its been degraded in that manner, from being a source of spiritual fulfillment to a source of entertainment.

And it only recently gained a spot in the mainstream commercial music industry with the talents of NFAK and the likes.

Now, post about your favourite qawwaals

[Salahadeen]

NeoMuslim said

"I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate"

Albani declared the Hadith to be Mawdoo (fabricated). Daraqutni labeled the Hadith as mudtarib (shaky), both in isnad and text. Tirmidhi labeled it is ghareeb (weak) and munkar (rejected). Bukhari said that the Hadith has no sahih narration and declared it un-acknowledgeable. Qurtubi said about this Hadith in al-Jame’ li Ahkam al-Quran: “This Hadith is Batil (false)!” Ibn Maeen said that the Hadith is a baseless lie. Dhahabi considered it a forgery and included it in his book on forged Hadiths. Al-Hakim declared that it is weak. Amongst others who dismissed the Hadith are Abu Zur`ah, Abu Hatim, Yahya bin Saeed, etc.

Timbit said

Why?

Not that there's anything wrong with praising Ali RA, but as far as I know, these qawwals (or the other artists who sing Sufi kalam) aren't Shia, so what's the need to sing "Ali da pehla number"?

The only explanation I can think of is that Qalandar himself must've been Shia?

They are crazy innovators, so who cares what they do or do not do....

[Timbit]

Salahadeen said

They are crazy innovators, so who cares what they do or do not do....

Who are?


Spice of my life: That's nice, but it's still "a source of spiritual fulfillment... as well as one of entertainment. Qawwali's just cool like that.

Anyway, there are so many good ones. But here's one I like:
YouTube - Abida Parveen - Mahi Yaar Di Gharoli

[Khairan]

Salahadeen said

They are crazy innovators, so who cares what they do or do not do....

Ah, but they make such beautiful music.

[sixpakistan]

Timbit said

Who are?


Spice of my life: That's nice, but it's still "a source of spiritual fulfillment... as well as one of entertainment. Qawwali's just cool like that.

Anyway, there are so many good ones. But here's one I like:
YouTube - Abida Parveen - Mahi Yaar Di Gharoli

You know, she's Sindhi

[Timbit]

sixpakistan said

You know, she's Sindhi

Yeah, and so are you, right?

Khairan said

Ah, but they make such beautiful music.

[m_ali_qazi]

sixpakistan said

You know, she's Sindhi

you're sindhi???