Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanbali
AliFazel, ever since you and your Shia friends stopped posting on Islamica, we've had no sectarian threads. Yet, as SOON as you come back, ………………………………………………………
In any case, the hadeeth you posted is a great proof AGAINST your argument. ………………………………………………………………………….
(Sahih al Bukhari Volume 2, Book 17, Number 123 Chapter “Istisqaa”, Narrated by Anas.)
[/indent]This a statement by Umar [ra] in which he says that the Sahabah USED to ask the Prophet [s] to make du`a when he was alive, …………………………………
If we could ask the dead for help (and grave-worship as your people do), ……………………………..
So this actually is a great proof against you, not for you. I am afraid you are making a fool of yourself.  |
1) I do not believe with those who come up with fanatical response about tawasul, So I initiated this discussion – what’s wrong with that?
2) You just said you don’t like Sectarian conflicts – Why don’t you join in instead of using hostile words like ----“and grave-worship as your people do”
3) These discussion enhance the understanding and knowledge. What’s the harm in it
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamroll
What do I think about this? I think the uncle wasn't dead was he? Umar (ra) said in the hadith you quoted, "We used to ask the Prophet to ask you for rain...", but then he died, so they couldn't ask the Prophet (saw) anymore. Because he was no longer around. So they asked his uncle, who was around, and funnily enough he was also... alive.
So you've just proved that you cannot ask anyone who has died for help, even the Prophet (saw). Yes, I agree with your argument that you've just proved. Thank you for coming round to the idea.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rida
this hadith is usually used as proof for tawassul via the living, which i don't think many object to..
Wassalaam
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I agree with you, the uncle was not dead –
BUT one thing is clear Tawasul is not invalid in Islam.
I remember last time – On this forum it was said that
Prophet (SAW) is alive in his grave – so If I go to the grave of Prophet (SAW) and talk to him – seek his help – why do the Saudi people beat us and drive us away?
And a remote question ---- Do the occupants of the grave eat and drink? Does prophet (SAWWS) and others who have given their lives for Islam, eat and drink in the grave?