[LEGALEAGLE]

continued from above.

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Mo (Miami, FL) wrote
at 6:06pm on March 5th, 2008
no one here felt an "infatuation with Islamists"; instead we felt a need to stand up against hatred, fear, and ignorance dressed up as "patriotism" and "liberty" and "protecting america" (the very phrases that fascist reactionary minutemen on the borders between Mexico and the U.S. might employ in order to hide often times unseemly intentions). You can continue to interpret this whichever way you want but perhaps if you were to read about the context of the event or if you knew me (and my intentions) a bit more, you'd realize that perhaps you, too, would have joined the counter-protest.
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Tarek Fatah (Toronto, ON) wrote
at 6:19pm on March 5th, 2008
Mo,

As long as US Muslim organisations owe their existence to Saudi funding and monies from the UAE, they willl further damage the Muslim cause in America.

I didn't see anyone of these dudes when Amadou Diallo was shot 44 times in NYC. Why? Was he too black for them? Then, when it was discovered that Amadou's middle name was Ahmed, they jumped in.

When the head office of a US organsiation has links to the UAE and avails of money made on the backs of slave like Indo-Pak Muslim labour, please, they do not deserve the label 'civil rights' or human rights.

If you wish to stand up against hatred and fight for human rights, then this should be applied universally, not selectively.

Ask CAIR to shed its Saudi links and I will give them the benefit of doubt, but no dollar from that wretched kingdom can ever lend itself to human rights.

After five years of handing over AMERICAN Muslim custody to the likes of CAIR and ISNA, see where they have brought us.
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Mo (Miami, FL) wrote
at 6:37pm on March 5th, 2008
Tarek, I have always been critical of the treatment of Pakistanis (and particularly Bangladeshis) as workers in the Middle East. But, again, I am talking about this particular event. This whole thing isn't just about CAIR.

There are definitely issues within the Muslim community that need to be discussed and sometimes organizations need to get their act together but I find it fascinating that you voiced no horror or disgust when your fellow Muslim brother (ME) received racist remarks.

I find that strange, Tarek. If someone had called you a terrorist or told you to go back to Palestine I would defend you because you are a human being and, while i disagree with you on some points, should be treated like one. If we are going to talk about consistency, then let's be consistent.

Why do you avoid addressing, even in passing, the event this blog is about? Why the focus on CAIR? The issue is bigger than CAIR.
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Mo (Miami, FL) wrote
at 6:42pm on March 5th, 2008
And when i say "why the focus on CAIR," I do not mean to suggest that you should not criticize them (I have my own critiques) but I am truly concerned that you have either not read the context I have just fleshed out or you are not interested in understanding the context of this event because you have particular views that you wish to broadcast--perhaps i am wrong though, who knows? i can't know your intent; it's all guesswork.

btw: Tarek, did you block me? I am not seeing your posts and I can't see your profile? I hope you just didn't block me because I insisted that you address the context which is pretty damning against the protesting group.
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LegalEagle (no network) wrote
at 6:56pm on March 5th, 2008
Tarek its the 21st century. You can put down the white mans burden : )
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Tarek Fatah (Toronto, ON) wrote
at 7:28pm on March 6th, 2008
Mo,

If you cannot agree that CAIR is a Saudi funded and UAE sponsored group, then there is no point in carrying out this discussion.

Are they not at the recveievign end of Saudi moines or not? If they are, they are not my friends and I do not have to choose between them and the lunatics who are the Anti-CAIR people.

As far as blocking is concerned, your friends in the Islamist world are the one's who had my account disabled for two days. Some day you will wake to the monsters you are defending. Islamofacism is not a ter inveted by Bush; he and the CIA know them well. They are after all the creation of the very people they oppose.
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Mo (Miami, FL) wrote
at 6:19am on March 7th, 2008
Tarek, I can respond to your post in various ways. But what i find most troubling is that you have yet to react to the actual context of this event.

I am not going to agree with you that there is no point in carrying on this discussion because, after all, what we need more than ever these days is frank discussion. That CAIR receives funding from Saudi Arabia does not necessarily mean that it is a "terrorist organization," as some might claim (utilizing simplistic "guilty by association" logic).

My Islamist friends disabled your account? Let's back that up with some evidence before we start making claims. Who? Show that they are my friends and I will scold them. I don't have friends who would do such things to you and if they did then I would defend you because their acts would seem quite obviously malicious. Please retract such an implication. I feel you are in the wrong.
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Mo (Miami, FL) wrote
at 6:26am on March 7th, 2008
Going back to my reference to "guilty by association logic," I think that your particular critique of CAIR (that if they receive funds from Saudi Arabia that they, then are not your friends) is problematic. Someone once told me that you were listed in Irshad Manji's book under the "thanks" or "acknowledgment" section of one of her books. When a person went on to argue that this was proof that you were a comprador intellectual, I actually defended you because I felt that mere association with her was not grounds for establishing, beyond a reasonable doubt, that you are a comprador intellectual. My point here is that I don't wish to engage in a smear campaign, brother. I am just concerned that you continually avoid addressing the context of this article and the fact that Muslims (whom you claim you stand up for) were maligned.
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Mo (Miami, FL) wrote
at 6:28am on March 7th, 2008
The tried tricks of asking me to condemn suicide bombers or asking me whether I am not opposed to the stoning of women would be a distraction, at this point. In fact, I am opposed to suicide bombings and capital punishment PERIOD.

That is why when you read my comments (if you have read them), you will notice that I pause from time to time and remind you that we probably agree more than we disagree. However, I will continue to voice my puzzlement over your avoidance of whether you feel that groups such as "Americans United Against Hate" serve a constructive purpose in democractic discourse.

Please do chime in. If you feel that you are above responding to these concerns, then that would be rather regrettable and I wish you the best. The solution, however, is not to "block" each other but continue to exchange viewpoints with the hope that we will learn from each other.
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Mo (Miami, FL) wrote
at 6:36am on March 7th, 2008
Btw: I lived in Saudi Arabia and so have you. We can talk about the pitfalls of that society and some of the customs employed and attitudes held (by some people) in length in a later blog. At the same time, I have also lived for some time in the Untied States and also Pakistan. And I am quite uneasy with the United States' practice of supporting Pakistan and Saudi Arabia and also certain practices within the Muslim community. On the other hand, I am opposed to imperialists and also racist bigots and whether a person is being racist to an "Islamist" or a "moderate secular Muslim," I will be equally offended and ready to take action and speak out.

Perhaps our differences emerge from a generational divide. If that is the case, then I would be glad to have a deeper conversation through alternative forms of communication (phone, e-mails, etc.). It's up to you, now.
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Mo (Miami, FL) wrote
at 7:02am on March 7th, 2008
How would you address the fact that some people at this protest against CAIR stated (mind you, without provocation) that "all Muslims are terrorists," "go back to your country," "CAIR is a terrorist organiztion," etc. etc.

Would you agree with them. I think not. Please state loudly and clearly your stance. At this point, I am interested in understanding how you define your own position vis a vis activism. Let's assume that person X is someone you call an "Islamist." If they are just standing in front of a bunch of people who are demonizing Muslims and someone tells her that she is a "terrorist" and that she should "go back to [her] country," what would you do if you were on the spot? Ignore the situation? Join in and defend your Muslim sister?

Or pehaps neither? This is not an either-or situation and I don't wish to impose such a situation upon you. Please freely respond to this situation as is defined as though you were in it.
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LegalEagle (no network) wrote
at 12:49am
Tarek can you please answer the question.

Also it would be appreciated if in future you didn't delete your posts but accepted that you were wrong.

The above is still continuing but it's not as fun as the other one...

But there's more than 4,000 people witnessing the above